Why do you think Edna wants to moce into a smaller house? Does it represent her independence?
To answer the fishbowl question:I think that the fling with Alcee is to just give her the feeling of being loved, and show herself that Robert didn't leave her for no reason. The poor guy, seriously!
Is the relationship between Edna and Arobin encouraged by lust or love?
She may even be afraid of something, so moving into a smaller house will make her feel more protected and secure?
I think that Edna is really trying to erase either Leonce or Robert, but I think that it's more of a symbol of her confidence really. She's finally taking a step towards something she wants and that in itself is making her stronger.
Alright, here is a question I have about Edna's love. She kisses Alcée but feels guilty because she doesn't truly love him because she loves Robert. First of all, why do you think she did this? And secondly, I know we discussed love in an earlier fishbowl discssion, but has Edna's perspective of love changed at all since?
I think that Edna's affair is a way for her to be happy and satisfied. She mainly needs a companion that she doesn't have to worry about decorum with. She needs a distraction, like Emily said. She doesn't really know what she wants, and therefore she just finds whims and follows them, without thinking.
Liz, she is urging to move into a smaller house not only for her independence but to distract herself from the issues in her life. She is trying to avoid the pain she is feeling with a new house.
I think that by moving into a smaller house that Edna is becoming independent and starting to break out from the bonds of which Leonce holds her.
Moving into a smaller house could be representing getting rid of empty space. Like all the emptieness in her life having a lrge house reminds her of. It's like moving on past old things that are not there anymore.
I agree with Kylie, I think Alcee was used just to numb the pain of losing Robert.
Hannah-I think that their relationship is influenced by lust. Like we're talking about on the inner cirle, she might be trying to erase Robert from her mind by replacing him with other men.
What implications will Robert's return evoke in Edna? Do you think that her confession of her love for him will be reciprocated?
I think she wants to move to a smaller house because she is trying to appreciate more about life (ie. the walks on the ocean, naps, etc.) and she is starting to appreciate the idea of a cute little cottage or solitude, without relying solely on people!!
I agree with Kjerstin, I think she is wanting to break free from his hold and is tired of being held down. She wants to prove to everyone that she can be independent.
I think that Edna kissed Alcee just as a way to rebel. she felt like she needed to do something so she just did the first thing that came to mind.
I agree with Zach and Kylie. Alcee was really used to try and fill whatever empty space had been created.
Kylie;) I think that Edna is super confused between what LOVE is and what LUST is. I mean, heck, we've all seen lust. It's on every television channel, except maybe on PBS. I'm sure loads of us have even felt it; physical attraction can be super powerful. I think that the way we can tell the difference is that lust is self-serving and love is selfless. What do you all think?
I agree with Kjerstin. I think that Edna just wants to get away and thinks that if she leaves her "past life" she will find what she really wants to do with her life and clear her thoughts that she is beginning to understand.
Liz, I do believe that moving into a smaller house is a symbol of independence. I think the smaller house sybolizes sort of starting over. I was just thinking how when we move off to college or even past then, we generally move to a smaller house, dorm, or apartment. Its kind of the same thing, each sybolizes more independence in the world and "starting over".
Brian-I think she kisssed him out of impulse, and she does not think through many of the things she does, including kissing Arobin. She seemed to act on impulse when with Robert also.
Brian-I don't think that her perception of love has changed. I think that she's always pictured love as one thing, but I think that she was childish when she met Leonce and was unable to really comprehend the situation. I think that now, she's finally realized how much better getting out of her marriage could be.
I think that she kisses Alcée because she wants to know the freedom and scandal of doing things with other people but she knows that it will never amount to anything. It is almost like she does it for her own amusement.
Dan, I've read that part of the book, and Robert seems really distant. Laine on the inner circle was saying that there was no love, but I think there was no love on both sides of the relationship. She loves Robert, Robert doesn't respond the same way anymore, Alcee loves her, she just used him, and then she has this problem with being married to a husband she's supposed to love.
Dan- I think that Edna will tell Robert that she loves him. I think she regretted not telling him before he left for Mexico, so she won't let the chance slip away from her again.
Meghan, I agree with you. Edna is confused of what she has seen in society with the labels of love and lust. She is told that what her and her husband have is love, but she truly feels love for Robert. dshe is confused what the emotions she has and the correct label to give them.
Meghan--I definitely agree with you, about the difference between love and lust. But I also think that for most people it is very hard to decipher the difference between what is selfless and what is selfish. In general, as a society we are very selfish and we are easily swept up in things. So I think that it is much easier to talk about the difference rather than actaually figure it out when put in that situation.
Why can Edna never be satisfied with Leonce and visa versa. They say they love eachother, however Edna cannot remain loyal to Leonce. In regard to the confusion of love and lust, she is lustful for many other men, however why can she not feel those feelings for Leonce. To me it is strange.
Going off of what Ms. Leclaire said, I think that Edna doens't understand herself, and if she really did, she would know exactly why she loves Robert. She would know why she does not love her husband anymore, and why she loves Robert.
Dan- I think it will drive him away because Edna, as they are talking about on the inner circle, has a twisted veiw of love and Roert knows it. Enda just feels lots of lust
I agree with Ty, I think Edna will jump at the opportunity to tell Robert she loves him. I don't think Robert will feel the same way because he was there for her all that time before he left and she never left the person she didn't love for Robert. So I think Robert will have moved on by the time Edna tells him she loves him.
I wonder what other relationships Leonce has...there's no evidence of any, is there?
I think that Edna also has problems knowing what exactly she wants. I think that with kissing Arobinand admitting her love for Robert she is very confused on what she wants.
Dan-When do they say they love each other? I know both Leonce and Edna know they aren't in love, they are just stuck in the situation they got themselves into. I think that Leonce puts on a show of loving Edna just to make society happy. I think that they were brought together by lust rather than love in that sense. So seperation would probably be a good situation for both Leonce and Edna.
Laura, I agree, I think that she convinces herself that she knows, however is truly oblivious to reeasoning behind her decisions and feelings. She has made an enormous transition or "awakening" and is very confused. It is hard to know yourself after you have changed.
Laura, I agree with you. She is very lost and unsure what she wants, which leads her to be immature in her realtionships.
Dan~ I think that Edna and Leonce don't love eachother like Edna loves Robert because of their circumstances. Edna married Leonce when she hadn't yet matured in her thoughts. She didn't realize that she didn't really love Leonce. Now, she knows this, and is trying to express her feelings and go after them.
Kylie-It seems as if Leonce could have a lot going on aoutside his marriage, because he is constantly away from his wife, and she never seems to pay any attention to what he does.
Dan, I think Edna can never be satisfied with Leonce because of the way he restrics her from persueing the things she wants. Edna, under Lenoce's "rule", was unable to do or think the things she wanted to. When she is with Alcée or Robert however, Edna can truly express herself and do the things she wants to do. As long as Leonce tries to keep her down, they can never be satisfied with eachother.
I agree with Connor, Edna seems very unsure of what she wants. Her being unsure is leading to all these problems.
Kjerstin - that's the thing, Robert never returns the idea of love to her after his return. Edna admits to loving Robert to Mad. Reisz, yes? So she is mislead, completely!
I disagree with Declan, even though we are not sure if he is having any other relationships, I think the possibility is stil there. Maybe he is just very good at covering it up.
Hey there family, Going off of what is happening in the inner circle, do YOU think she is putting herself into a place where she is inviting Arobin's affections? I mean, can you invite affection? Isn't that a freely given sort of emotion that you cannot make anyone feel?
Thanks for that Declan, I appreciate your research of the evidence.I'm not sure if Edna is so stupid as the inner circle is saying, I think she's just insecure, and TRYING TO FIND SOMEWHERE SHE BELONGS and something to believe in, because she has never felt this way before! She always followed the societal norms and now I think she is just trying to figure out the rest of the aspects of society! YES!
I don't think that she is immature in her relationships, I think that she deep down knows what she is doing. She knows that she loves Robert, but she wants to experence things with other people.
I agree with Zach and Ty. I think that Edna has already lost Robert once and she won't lose him again. I think that she will confess her love for him soon.I also agree with what is being said in the inner circle. I think that Edna doesn't really know what love is.
Brian, do you think that Edna resents Leonce. Do you think that the way he treated her before (which at the time she accepted). And do you think that her shannanigans with other men is purely revenge.
Connor-I agree. I think that Edna really doesn't know what she wants or what love even is. She's just too confused about everything and can't make up her mind. She pretty much just does everything on a whim.
Kyle, I wish we knew more about Leonce's life as well. I actually wouldn't be surprised if Leonce has cheated on her. I don't understand their relationship because it seems like they never know what the other one is up to. A relationship cannot be based on this. Its almost like they aren't married at all.
I think that edna will confess to Robert. she has had enough courage to rebel already so confessing to him is the next step.
I TOTALLY agree with you. I think that she's lost. I think that by her actions lately, that she's been finding herself. Is this more important than taking care of her family?
I agree with Kylie, sorry.
Meghan- I think that she is doing the same thing to Arobin that she did to Robert. She wants these men to like and love her, but she doesn't seem to love them back.
Dan-I think Edna's "shenanigans" are out of impusle and has nothing to do with revenge on her husband. She doesn't seem to think things through, so I don't see why she would have thought revenge through.
I agree with Ty, Edna just wants to be adored without any strings attached.
I wonder if she's afraid to raise her children, because she doesn't want them to feel as lost in life as her. I wonder if her past (like Chopin's) prohibited her in the past, and just now she is becoming more comfortable with the idea of branching out.
Nathan, I am not totally convinced that she has overcome her fears enough to confess to Robert. She might, it is a possibility, but her rebeliousness might it be grand enough to tell him.
Brian, I definitely agree. I don't actually understand how they have "faked" it this far, and lasted this long. To me, it seems like a completely pointless relationship, and it makes me assume that they are both still in it for a specific reason, but probably not the right reason.
I agree with Connor and Nathan. I think she will eventually confess her love for Robert. It seems like she has started to become a bit more rebellious and eventually she will decide to confess.
Dan, I never considered her actions with other men as being an act of revenge. However, it very well could be to get back at him for essentially controling her for so long. On a larger scale even, Edna could be making a statement to all women. If this is how women are treated in this society, maybe somehow Edna is making a statement that this is wrong. If there is revenge, I doubt its very strong though because I believe that the source of these actions is actually a search for her true identity.
This whole marriage/true love issue is kind of perplexing to me. This society that the story takes place in creates false notions about love and duty, and those terms seem interchangable. Madame Ratignolle and her husband seem bound by duty, and they also love eachother. Since we don't know a lot of the characters, we dont' know if they are truly happy, but they put on a face to show the rest of the world that they are happy with their current lifestyle, because that is what is expected of them. Edna and Leonce married for what they thought was love, what their society thought was love. Eventually, they do not get along anymore once they realize that their life is based on false notions. This perception seems very detrimental to peoples' lives and it is understandable that Edna is not happy with her life because of the confusion. Sorry, that was really long. Does it make sense? :)
I think that by finding herself, she will be able to help her family evenmore. She will no longer be lost and she may become more heartfelt and be able to take care of her family better.
Hannah,I agree I think that she does do everything on a whim, however do you think that this will lead to her dowwnfall? Do you think that her actions without thought of the consequences will end up giving her heartache, or result in the end of a realtionship with a friend or Leonce.
Kylie! I think that to make yourself belong in any situation you have to be the one person in the situation that can do the one thing no one else can do. Does that make sense? Like...on a sports team for example! Let's say you can't run or hit but you can really throw the ball. LIKE SUPER AWESOME THROWER. There you go. In groups with pals I think one has to use different aspects of their personality to balance them out; every group of friends has the sensible one and the funny one and the athletic one...and so on and so forth. Ty, Why don't you think Edna can love men? What could help her come to a place where she can feel love?
OH! Think about Kate Chopin's life, how her father died very early in her life. Maybe that is why he is so distant from the story and everything is portrayed so weirdly, and therefore she wouldn't know how to portray such a character so well.Well then with her own father, she makes him so glorious, maybe to bring that element from her ideal life into the story.
I agree with Liz. I think that by finding out who she is, she might think of other people, and she will be able to help her family.
Liz, I kind of disagree. I think with the freedom she has and is gaining she might not want to help her family but move on as an individual. Does she really care all that much about her family?
I think that Arobin was placed in this story to show Edna's insecurities and instability with her thoughts. She doesn't really love anyone, and doesn't understand that yet.
Brian-I agree that their relationship is very odd. There relationship almost seems like a kid with a new toy. The kid will be obsessed with the toy for a while, but eventually it will get old and be ignored or forgotten.
Hannah, do you think that she is doing everything on a whim because she is so bored with her life and all she wants is some excitement.
Hello everyone!Does anyone else know a "womanizer" like Arobin? You know the sort...a guy that can win over any girl he desires, use her for a bit, and then on to the next, not necessarily bad people, but people who want a little bit of everything.
I think that if Edna confesses her love to Robert she will be a happier person. I think that Robert is a better person then Mr. P. and Robert will take care of Edna better.I agree with Hannah and Dan. I think that she bases her actions on a whim. I think this will be her downfall.
Yes, Meghan, I do, but I can't point fingers, because that, that would be awful of me to do hahaha!But I agree with what you are saying :]
Kayla- I think that part of her does love her family. I don't really understand how, by helping herself, that will not help her family...
Ty-Yes I think so. Since she's bored with her life she trys new things on a whim to experience some excitement. Sort of like she did at the beach with Robert. She felt all rebellious because she went out into the ocean on a whim.
I like Madmoiselle Reiz. I don't think she's crazy. I think she's the only one who's SANE.
Kayla, I agree with what you are saying, but maybe if she has some time alone, to pull herself back together, and start caring more about herself, then maybe that will help her to care more for the other people in her life.
Laura, that is an interesting idea. Maybe through all these "love" affairs, Edna will actually discover that she doesn't love anyone. Nowhere is there a rule that says you have to love someone and commit yourself to them for life. Perhaps Edna is just a unique person who cannot have love. In fact, now that I think about it, that is a very plausible outcome to this story. WIth all this dissapointment ans sadness in love, why not just eliminate it?
Connor- I agree. think Edna is so desperate for male attention that she is willing to grasp at whatever opportunity presents itself.
Hey Brian! I completely empathize with your feelings here. There are PLENTY of single people out in the world who are actually, truly happy......but our society says they should not be.
One thing I have noticed about Edna is that she seems to lack confidence in herself. I think her lack of self-love makes it difficult for her to truly love anyone, including her children.
I feel so secretive, posting here after everyone else.Anyway, I agree with many points brought up here. As we see later in the book, Edna's complete inability to think things through. An entire (admittedly short) chapter is devoted to her pondering her actions then finally dismissing him. She has very little regard for consequences and instead bases her actions on immediate personal gratification. Reisz, on the other hand, looks at life from a different perspective. Edna only opens up to her true emotions to Mademoiselle Reisz's piano playing; perhaps her life lacks "music" in so many other aspects that's the only place she can react. But, by failing to confront her own feelings, she ends up allowing herself to be taken advantage of (as oxymoronic as that sounds) instead of doing what she wants. As I have said all along, Edna has turned herself into a tool. I like what Meghan said about Reisz being the only sane one; she's the only one who actually has a true identity (except perhaps Robert, as we see towards the end, but he's absent so frequently it's not really relevant to my point).
Sorry it is a little late but here it goes...to start, I think Edna wants to move into a smaller house to possibly escape the pressures of living in a larger house and having to entertain more. I think she likes the secludedness and fells like she has more control, not only by living in a smaller house, but by exercising her power to move if she pleases.Next, I believe that Edna's fling with Arobin is purley lust. I don't think she shares any emotions with him that she felt for Robert. And I am not so sure that Arobin doesn't feel the same way. I think they are both just "having fun".As a general idea, I believe that Edna almost likes not knowing what she wants. I think she was so sick of people telling her what she should like and not like, such as societies pressure to stay with Leonce. for once she is able to decide for herself what she wants and doesn't want and is becoming brave enough to act on those impulses, which is sort of a shock to her.As a concluding statement, I think that Edna is starting to break from her mold by making more independent choices, with less consideration of societies views, but is lacking the realiziation of the consequences that will result. I think these foolish, rash decisions will come back to bite her... as we know they have devistating results :/
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