Please post your fishbowl comments here; remember to refresh the page frequently by hitting F5. The same rules for writing apply to live blogging:
1. Always proofread and use standard spelling and grammar.
2. Use complete sentences, not IM language.
3. Read others' comments before posting your own, and focus on having a conversation with each other.
Enjoy!
Subscribe to:
Post Comments (Atom)
111 comments:
This is a test post. Test. Testtesttest.l
Here's something to think about:
I connected the narrator in this story to Noah in The Village. Something makes him angry about Lucius, and in this story the old man's eye irks him pretty badly. And in both cases, it's a strong enough annoyance to kill!
Why does Poe start the story with the word "true"? What does he mean by that? Is it symbolic?
Wow Kylie rocking observation! Do you think the narrator LOVES the old man deeply enough to kill him, as he does say he loves him?
Hmmm, Kari, that is a great thing to point out. True. Is it used in an ironic sense?
Kylie: I completely agree with you. Noah is like the narrator in the fact that he doesn't realize his actions probably are not good. He finally realizes it, and then he sees the consequences of his actions, and he becomes frightened.
Kari: Maybe he feels like he is defending himself in the situation:
Example:
You are just plain mad.
TRUE! I am mad... etc.
Perhaps?
THE VILLAGE CONNECTION: colors. The eye is a thin milky blue. any ideas on what this symbolizes, ladies and gents?
For long enough the eye could annoy someone enough
Maybe Poe started the story out with the word TRUE because it shows that no matter how much the narrator contradicts himself, what he did actually happened and it is true.
Does blue symbolize length? truth? time?
Jimmy, not sure I understood your comment. Sorry!
i don't know what you mean by that, how can you love someone so much that you kill them? that seems like an oxymoron to me.
Meg, that's along the lines of what I was thinking. Is that meant to say anything about the reliability of the narrator?
I don't think the color represents more than just an explanation. It the eye stares and i think that is the important peice
GUYS. Do you guys think the heart was guilt or actually beating?
Exactly Laura! Then he panics. And then he virtually turns himself in by coming to find Ivy to show her. And in Tell Tale Heart, well... he turns himself in blatently to the police.
BAD idea.
oh, my first comment was just to log in...
Hmmm, could be true, Kari.
Is an insane person reliable? Are they capable of lieing?
okay, i thought of this while i was reading the story, but if youre insane, will you know it? enough to defend yourself?
I kind of think that the eye represents the villain in this story on one sense because it's the reason why the man gets paranoid and gets crazy which leads to the mans' death.
Kylie: generally, yes, that is a bad idea. :)
The narrator's insane for killing someone just over a simple annoyance (the eye). He does have a conscience though because he hears his guilt via hearing his heartbeat.
Meghan, I definetly think that the eye being blue is symbolic of something. Going back to the colors in The Village, what could blue represent?
What was it that made the narrator hate the old man so much because of his eye? What was the narrator trying to say about him loving the old man before, many years ago?
I think the narrator is insane, because the amount of arrogance he expresses after killing the old man does not seem natural. I think he is different from Noah, because Noah seemed aware of his actions after he stabbed Lucious. Although Noah made several mistakes, I still think he was compassionate and aware of his actions.
Wow, Matt, extra credit. Bonus points. Stars.
Do you think you realize if you are insane?
My grandpa on my dad's side was bipolar (badly badly bipolar) and I never met him, but when he was in one of his "phases" my dad said he acted in a way that contradicted his character.
Does insanity change us?
Insane people probably aren't reliable because they think they are always right. They are capable of lying though. I beleive insane people need a reason (in their own minds) for what they do so if they need to lie they will.
i really like that observation Kjerstin. He is like an opposite villain i guess, because the guy doesn't kill it for the good of mankind but for selfish reason
Did the narroator have a certain disorder that made him act this way?
Emily said "how can you love someone enough to kill them?"
Connect that to "Usher"... and our discussion of how you can love or hate someone so much to kill them?
And in this case, then why would the narrator love the old man enough to kill him? What about his eye that bothers him so much?
Fitz: I think you could be insane to different degrees. You could be semi-insane enough to know that you're crazy and then there's other people who are just stone cold crazy and they can't defend themself because that's just how they are.
If your insane you also probably don't know it, you just grow into it
Is it possible that the narrator hears his own heart beating and projects it onto the man? Perhaps much of this story relates to projection...maybe the eye reveals something disturbing within his own conscience.
That is a good question, Matt. I don't know, but I think that the narrator might have been normal at some time, and then his frantic killing of the man, that controls his emotions, causes him to kind of lose it. So, he might know that his actions are not normal, but since he can't control his emotions, and can't reason, he doesn't really care.
Erika, I think that the narrator hates the eye so much because it seems to be examining him. It feels to him like he is under constant scrutiny. This is like the doppleganger in William Wilson. It's the same idea of examining oneself and being uncomfortable what you do.
Hey Ty.
You are sitting three feet away from me. Strange that I am typing instead of speaking, laughlaughlaugh.
Blue. Blue is supposed to represent love, calming, welcoming, or sadness (I think) scientifically. So does that mean the eye represents good and the therefore the death of good?
Erika- I think the eye was so disturbing to the narrator because he was afraid his eye could see through him. Maybe he was afraid that the eye was powerful enough to detect the narrator's sins, and he was afraid of exposure.
Zach, I like the idea of different degrees of Insane. Which degree is this guy and what would that make him think about reality?
But wouldn't someone have the courage to tell you that you need help and get you into a certain facility? Like a family member or a friend?
Oh, new connection. Wow I'm posting a lot.
I was reading what KJ was saying...
So yellow represented calmness and safety.
Red is like an evil, fire, destruction, mean.
Blue/Dark could be sort of the unknown? Something you want to see more of, learn more about, but are afraid?
Eh?
I don't think people like to be judged and the narrator thinks the eye has it's own mind and is alalyzing him but not telling him.
Why did "The Old Man with the "creepy" eye" in particularly "pick out" the narrataor? Did the old man's EYE NOT DISTURB ANYONE ELSE????
Erica,
Sometimes people refuse to get help.
With different types of insanity, you can not realize it/enjoy it/hide it; a million other things.
When you're bipolar, your "high" times feel awesome! Why would you want to get help to feel WORSE?
See. It's sorta twisted.
I really do think that he can hear his own heart beating. One thing that I think is that his paranoia of getting caught is making him really nervous, and as a result, you can make yourself hear something if you are afraid of something enough.
Cmeghan- I think that the eye's color could represent the death of good, but I don't think it represents the death of God. I think that you have a point about the eye's color. Maybe it represents the narrator's attempts to extinguish all positive influence in his life.
Ooo, Ms. Kakos! That is a good question. I think that the narrator's own "reality" isn't actually real, and he just goes around frightening himself. Not sure...
Jimmy, that's alot like in Wilson, he kills the man who is watching him, like a conciense.
I think color has been a theme of all of the pieces of gothic literature we have read. I personally think that color is connected to emotion. We all know that colors like blue are associated with sorrow and the color red is associated with many negative things such as blood and hell. I think the prevalence of color in gothic literature is an attempt by the author to influence the emotions of the reader.
Kylie pretty,
Blue is supposed to represent love, calming, welcoming, or sadness (I think) scientifically. So does that mean the eye represents good and the therefore the death of good?
Jimmy: I think this guy is semi-insane because he does have a conscience at the end of the story, hearing his heart beating as a sign of guilt.I think once his obsession with the eye is doused becaused he killed the man he has nothing else to think about except what he just did.
The narrator was paranoid about the eye judging him. That happens to a lot of people where they think the person is singleing them out because they don't notice everything else that's going on around him/her and is just focused on that one thing. For example road rage, People focus on the guy that cut them off and don't notice the 3 cars that he just cut off and the accident to his left.
Why in the beginning did the narrator tell how much he loved the old man and was good friends with him? Was this a real friendship or just getting close to him to gain knowledge on how to kill him?
Kari is a genius.
Color. Is that an element of Gothic literature, just like catharsis or doppelgangers?
Lane: That's brilliant. I'm serious. he feels watched all the time. Maybe in the Village, they feel always threatened by the monsters. In Usher, he feels threatened by his sister. In Edward Scissorhands, everyone is afraid of his huge house way up on the hill, and the way he doesn't speak much and can be just an observer and it intimidates people.
Any other connections people want to make to this theme?
I agree Meghan. Throughout the whole story the narrator is calling it the "evil eye" and he talks about how the eye is always there. Could this be a symbol that good is always there? Could the eye represent the good in the narrator?
Jimmy- I agree with your idea that the eye is judging him. I think he is afraid that the eye will detect his every flaw.
I have a question for everyone, Did he want to kill the man who "owned" the eye or just the eye?
Emily, I agree with you about Wilson. Like what Lane said, the doppelganger made Wilson nervous and caused him to kill the other Wilson. His conscience was too much, like in Tell Tale Heart. The man's conscience about killing the man gets better of him and he completely creeps himself out.
Why does the narrator brag about how methodical he was when carrying out the murder?
Kylie-
Then you would think that there would be more color represented in the story. I do agree with your ideas on blue. I think that that relates to like the Gothic movie stills we watched the other day when you see something normal, but there's just something a bit different that makes something scary to you and I think that that's one thing that really got to the narrator.
Kylie:
Watching.
Why does being watched frighten us?
Does it come from instincts, like being watched by a predator?
Or do we only believe our sins are real if others see them?
I believe just the eye Jimmy. I wasn't able to tell if the narrator HATED the old man himself or just the old man's eye.
So does the narrator not want the bad parts of him to be exposed by the guy's eye or does he not want the old man's faults to be exposed for him to see?
hannah/jimmy. i really love the comments you have been putting up. people hate being judged and that feeling of being watched is creeping him out. just like in William Wilson, and maybe that's why noah in the Village likes Ivy so much, because he knows she is not watching him (in the literal sense)
Meghan: Death of goodness, or death of innocence?
Noah and Ivy both had blue eyes, and Noah dies, and Ivy's fear and innocence is taken away when she ventures through the forest. She can't be protected anymore, and her simple innocence dies.
Ty- Good point. Even though the eye is described as evil by the narrator, I don't believe the narrator is reliable. I think the eye could represent the good in the world. My question is why would Poe represent good with an eye like the old man's?
What can insanity symbolize in this story?
Hey Brian just made me wonder: What is Poe's definition of insanit?
Ty
Hello again. I love live blogging.
The eye as the narrator's good. The heart as the narrartor's guilt. The old man as the narrator's doppelganger/conscience.
Does the narrator essentially "kill" himself when he kills the old man? In all these stories, death of self is a theme; the narrator or main character is forever changed.
Kylie/everyone in the kylie conversation- I have a theory that all fear comes from the unknown. That if you don't know what's going on then you fear what will happen. The man didn't know what the eye was doing or thinking or why it was looking at him. The people of the village didn't know what the monsters would do to them.
meghan-I think that insanity does change us. Like being bipolar or maybe even having multiple personality disorder you act different when one of these is affecting you.
I read an article about a woman who had a very bad case of multiple personality disorder and she had 17 different alibis (sp?). She would act completely different with each personality she thought she was at the moment. Friends and family described her as normal when she wasn't suffering from the effects of this disorder, but she was completely insane when she wasn't herself.
So after that long explanation, yes, I do believe that insanity changes us.
cvanessan- I think that people just generally do not like to see themselves in bad light, and they like to think the best of themselves. Like in Wilson, the narrator doesn't like the fact that he might have the negative qualities of the other Wilson.
i feel like a huge theme throughout every story is the destruction of innosense which is what we have been talking about. Noah Dies, if the eye is innosent then it dies, the second william wilson could be innosense and it dies too.
A comment on Megan's question of whether or not insane people are reliable; I really don't think so. I think the distorted reality associated with insanity severely effects an insane person's perception and interpertation to the point of unrecognizability (I hope that is a word). They see such different motives and rationalizations that I don't think what they say can be trusted. It can be interperted, but not relied on.
Meghan says Why does being watched frighten us?
Because we feel intimidated by the person, like they have a power because we don't know why they are staring and they could have another plot coming about that could injure us.
Yes?
Great question Hannah!!!! Poe's definition of insanity, I believe is the inability to think clearly and to focus your thoughts properly. One's senses are not as clear as they ought to be.
Kylie, totally awesome Village connections. Wow! Clapping. Standing ovation. Everyone read Kylie's post; it rocks!
Meghan- That is really good. It is almost like the narrator loved the old man, and he loses part of himself and his "sanity" when the man is killed.
emily- i don't see the eye being innocent but i also don't see it being evil. It seems to be a abystander in something bigger we don't know about
Is there something bigger between the man and the narrator that we don't know about?
Meghan once again!
Yes, being watched does frighten us. Maybe it's because of guilt, that the person who was watching us might find out something we did or said and we don't want them to find out about it.
Or it's just the simple creepiness of someone following us. This reminds me of the movie Deja Vu (great movie by the way, everyone should see it!).
Great comment Blair, is his mind just playing tricks on him? Who's heart is really beating? Is it someone's heart other than the narrator or "The Old Man with the creepy eye" ?
Emily, Hannah, and Jimmy are hitting my points completely on the head. I think this whole story is about how people hate to be judged, and how your guilt will get after you. The second is obvious but the first is harder to get a hold of. I do wonder whether Poe struggled with being judged as a child. This might be his message telling people that constant judgement and scrutiny can drive someone insane.
Meghan
I loved your questions on why being watched frightens us I think that we get frightened because we think that whoever is watching us will see our sins and faults and not like us anymore or think less of us. I think we hate feeling exposed because we also like to preserve our own independent nature and private thoughts.
Cmeghan- I think that is a good point about the character's own self destruction when they destroy others. What does this tell us about our actions towards others? Is Poe sending us a warning?
Jimmy-
Great point. I think that there are some people who freak out when they're not in control. But I'm not sure how the eye makes him feel not in control.
How is sanity defined?
Meghan- I think that you could argue that the narrator did kill himself when he killed the man, but not in the literal sense. After he kills the man, he basically goes insane. So I guess you could say that the narrator killed himself and became another person.
Kylie- I think your comment really relates to my fear of the unknown.
Hannah, I have another reason to go along with yours to answer Meghan's question
Why does being watched scare us?
Because we feel intimidated by the person, like they have a power because we don't know why they are staring and they could have another plot coming about that could injure us.
Hannah - that is a great movie connection. I love Deja Vu, and it a great example because the man has to be careful to make sure that the people don't know that he is following them, because they will not be comfortable with it.
Ty- I think the man was already insane. He was watching the man every night, isn't that a sign of insanity.
Hannah s!
Hello hello.
The eye is covered with a milky white film and the man is old, right?
old=innocence/harmlessness
blind=true/can't see the world but can see deeper.
You think?
This might be out of left field here, but going back to Jimmy's question--is it possible that the old man is the narrator's father? Why else would he "love" him? This could make them doppelgangers as well.
What was the significance of the narrator "hiding" what he had done to "The Old Man witht the creepy eye" from the police by "trying" to calmy talk to them while "trying" to cover up his murder that he did?
Emily: I completely agree with you; destruction of innocense is a huge theme of gothic litereature. I think it's purpose is to evoke a catharsis (or strong emotional response [I wasn't sure how to phrase that]) from the readers. I think a lot of the themes of gothic literature are connected to emotion.
Not being watched is also an aspect of personal privacy. Everyone ahs their own boundaries, that they don't want others to know about. Maybe the narrator of Tell Tale Heart doesn't have that boundary and he isn't aware of others' boundaries?
Kylie- being watched scares us because we are being analyzed and we don't know why or what we are being analyzed about (good or bad)
Ms. Kakos-That is a great question! Maybe his heart is just beating so hard out of guilt and out of the police being in his house, that he just convinces himself that it is the old man's heart that is beating and not his.
Kylie-
I think that we are afraid to be watched because to go along with what Jimmy is saying, you don't really know what could happen. It's like you don't know why they're staring at you and you wonder what they could possibly be thinking about you and the paranoia just continues to build up.
Cvanessen- I also think that we fear people watching us because we are afraid that they will discover our true character. I think few of us can honestly admit we don't act when at school. I think our desire for social acceptance drives us to alter who we are in some way so that we fit the social norm. Therefore, we are afraid of people studying our true character.
Ty: I agree with the figurative suicide of the narrator. Even though he ends up killing someone else his guilt haunts him to the point where he cannot function.
If you take the story from an outside point of view, where we don't understand the narrator's situation, how would the story change in its appearance to us? Would it seem worse or better?
ooh! from ms. kakos' comment- there is a theory that every man secretly wants to kill his father and take his place.
this could be part of the explanation behind his whole 'i love him' deal
Jimmy- That's a good point, but I think that killing the man pretty much drove him off the edge.
Hannah S!
Because I know a bit about Poe: does he try to warn us about being watched because he/his actions were judged so harshly throughout his life.
Zach: is sanity just the way the majority of the population is? do people in insane asylums call themselves sane?
GREAT QUESTION MS.LECLAIRE!!!! How could he love someone so much yet want them to die? Could they have been cousins or other family members too? Why is this?
Maybe it's the heart because he is obssed with the eye and the heart is something that he didn't want to hurt so he felt guilty about that.
Hannah
I totally agree with you about why people get freaked out when they're being watched. I also thought your question about how Poe defines sanity was interesting. I don't know about that, I don't know if he really thinks everyone in his story is insane becasue the reader does.
Goodbye everyone!!!! Nice talking to ya'll!!!! :)
It's very odd how guilt can effect you into confessing things. For awhile, the bad thing you did feels good...you get a thrill and you feel dangerous! But after awhile, it starts to eat away at you.
I would imagine that this is what the main character was experiencing. He was feeling the thrill of killing the old man (for whatever reason, I think that's kind of creepy) and acting cocky since the police showed up at his house and he thought that he could keep his 'cool' about it.
I remember while reading The Crucible, we talked about psycopaths and how killing someone and watching a flower grow were no different to the person affected. I believe that this is the situation here...only there is more of a living conscience inside of this person and he ends up feeling guilty about what he did.
Ok, CMeghan...I read this story in 7th grade. I think that it's the man's heart beating. I think it's beating to I guess kind of taunt the killer into admitting what he did. It was annoying him so much that he just cracked. It was a sound that wasn't very pleasant to hear for the killer and it was driving him absolutely crazy! The killer let his insanity get to him.
What I think Erikaw is that the killer was so insane that he seemed to be the only one that the old man's eye had bothered. I don't know if there was some kind of connection, but it does make you wonder.
Post a Comment