Tuesday, August 28, 2007

The Devil in the Forest

How do you think Nathaniel Hawthorne would define "evil" based on "Young Goodman Brown"? Do you agree with his definition? Explain your thinking.

Please respond by midnight tonight.

27 comments:

KariB said...

I think Hawthorne would define evil as a means of control. I believe the evil in Goodman Brown's life caused him to have the dream that essentially ruined his life. It also probably influenced Brown's actions during the dream, such as his wild run through the forest.

KylieYoum said...

I feel that Hawthorne feels that evil can come from the most unexpected places. You could argue that Goodman had no idea that the people wakling through the woods were witches, because they did not act like witches when they were around him.

I agree with that definition; many people appear amazing to the eye but can change or turn...or you find out evil sides of them you didn't know existed!

erikaw said...

I think Nathaniel Brown would define "evil" as trying to dominate people and the way that they live thier lives. It is manipulation over the thoughts of your fellow people. I don't agree with Nathaniel Brown, in that I believe that people should live their lives according to their own means. Their are hundreds of thousands of different religions in our world today, and although I am Christian, I can try to reach out to people and to spread the word of Christianity, but I can't change the way people think in any way.

Laurab said...

I think that Hawthorne would define evil as, like kari said, a way to control people. Many people will go to great lengths to make someone do something they want, to manipulate them, in order to get what they want. People do those things no matter what the consequences, no matter if they are right or wrong.

zachf said...

Hawthorne defines evil as something you may not be able to see when it is right in front of you as Kylie said. As we discuseed in class today, Goodman Brown could have been walking with the devil and had not realized it.

As Kari said, I also think evil would be known as a way to control and manipulate people. Once evil is spread from one person to another it is hard to stop a person from doing "evil" things.

matt f. said...

I think Hawthorne would define evil as betraying everything and everyone that you pretended to be loyal to. It seemed that the whole story was about betrayal, that of the preacher betraying his followers, and Goodman Brown betraying Faith.

Declan "Danger" said...

i agree with kylie and zach. i think hawthorne was saying that evil can come from where you least expect. i also think matt brings up a good point that i hadn't thought about, though. maybe hawthorne's theme was that betrayal of the ones close to you is the ultimate evil or whatever. only hawthorne knows...

TyC said...

I agree with what Kari said about evil being a means of control. I also think that fear is closely linked with evil. Often times we see people being controlled by fear. I see this in Goodman Brown when he is walking through the forest. He fears that something will happen to Faith, so he continues to walk with the devil.

Kjerstinl said...

I think that Hawthorne could drfine evil as something that makes you questiong what you know is right in one perspective. But in another perspective I think it could be the thing that controls fear, it controls people, like what Kari said, but through fear.

Anonymous said...

I think that Hawthorne tried to illustrate evil as meaning manipulation, confusion, and control throughout "Young Goodman Brown". He shows that Brown, through the story, walks along with the man in the forrest, holding a completely normal conversation with him as if he were any other person. Brown seems to notice that there is an air about the man that makes him uneasy, and at some times he wishes to leave the man, but at the same time, Brown convinces himself that everything is normal. There is manipulation and confusion going on inside of Brown and he hardly notices this. I think this shows a sort of control that the man has over Brown. He is twisting his facts and trying to deceive Brown into feeling comfortable with him.
Just as this man slowly becomes more comfortable with the man, the Devil tries to deceive people in real life by making it seem like the things he influences us to do are normal. He makes us feel like there is nothing wrong with going along with his plan, when really, he has just manipulated us into believing there is nothing wrong.

KariB said...

Well, I realized that I didn't fully answer the question, so here is an addendum to my earlier post.

I agree with Hawthorne's definition of evil as a means of control. Although I think, depending on the mental strength of the individual in question, it might be just influence. I believe the goal of such influence would be to "invite" sin.

By the way, I also like Kylie's interpertation of the question. I had not thought of it that way.

bawachmu said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
bawachmu said...

When Hawthorne wrote "Goodman Brown," he hid the meaning of things such as faith and evil in people or instances.

I think that Hawthorne's entire story was his thoughts on evil, and he intended for evil to be, "in the eye of the beholder," so to speak. I came up with this while reading everyone else's comments. Everyone, though some came up with similar ideads, had their own spin. Some came up with 'betrayal', and some 'control' and 'fear.'

The fact that evil could be in the eye of the beholder is easily plausible. Some see evil as those who do drugs, some see evil as those who tattle. The Rolling Stones obviously saw evil in wars and assasinations (as many of us would agree), even though some of them were to protect the villagers or to keep a country from digging deeper into poverty.

Hannah J said...

I agree with Kari in saying that Hawthorne would define evil as means of control. When Goodman Brown was traveling on his journey with the other men, he kept wanting to turn back, but one of them would always convince him to keep going. They had more control over him, probably more than he knew.

I actually think that the walking stick/staff represented temptation. Each time he wanted to turn back, he would be offered a walking stick to help him and then decide to go on despite knowing that it was wrong.

jordanc said...

I think Nathaniel Hawthorne would define "evil" as that evil is something that can come from anyone. Especially those you think you can trust. I think Hawthorne thought that evil could come from anywhere, even when you dont expect it.

I kind of agree with this definition because everyone has to have a little evil inside them. Some people just have more evil or greater degrees of it. But sometimes I feel that I know where most evil is and can expect it.

jimmym92 said...

Hawthourne would describe evil as sometihng that goes against society. Goodman brown was seeing people that mabe didn't do things that we in our world would see as evil but they did. Like Brown went into the forest alone as well as the other people at the "alter" and the rest of society didn't see that as a good thing.

blair said...

I think Nathaniel Hawthorne defines "evil" as not listening to your better judgment and following a "path" that you know isn't right. Or in other words being manipulated into doing something you know you shouldn't.

Goodman Brown knew that he shouldn't have been doing what he was doing, but he continued down that path anyway. He continued to follow the devil against his better judgment.

I agree with this defenition because I don't think that evil lives inside of you or that it is thrust upon you. I think evil is something that is caused by a lot of different things happening at one time. Such as panic, confusion, manipulation, pressure, or fear.

Goodman Brown was manipulated, pressured, and confused. That is why he continued to follow the devil.

I hope that all makes sense :)

briang said...

I think Nathaniel Hawthorne would define "evil" as a means of control using manipulation. I also agree that he would define it as a force that can be found in anyone, even the person you trust the most. But I think Howthorne would say that evil defends itself by tricking its victims. That is, evil tricks people into doing things they wouldn't normally do, however it is still that person doing the action. Does that make sense? Goodman Brown did things that contradicted his beleifs, but he still did them on his own. Evil influenced him and tricked him, but it never took over him completely.

I agree with this definition for many of the same reasons Blair agreed. I believe evil isn't somthing that takes over you. However, I do believe it can trick you into doing things out of the ordinary. I also agree that any person could do evil things. Goodman Brown trusted Faith more than anyone, yet he saw the evil within her.

Does that make sense? I believe, based on this story, that people do things on there own, they are only fooled and manipulated by evil.

ShannonH said...

I agree with most people on this blog. Goodman Brown realized that people are not what they seem, especially when he sees the church leaders walking in the forest with the devil. He realizes that danger can come from the ones you love as well as the ones you hate, and so he never really feels safe in others' company again. The dream ruins his life because the evil that he saw changed his mind, and changed the way he viewed his town, from love, to skepticism and fear.

chelseah said...

I think that Hawthorne would define "evil" as a method to control people, by having them live in fear. (Just like what we talked about in class.) I think that the people are mostly living in the fear of evil, and don't have a complete understanding of what the evil actually is.

I pretty much with what everyone has said in this blog. I think his definition is that everyone has a little bit of evil in them, and at anytime a person can change and that whole new side can emerge.

Unknown said...

It is very hard to glean, for me at least, Hawthorne's definition from this story. It would seem to me that Hawthorne presents the idea of human nature as evil. In this story I see that every problem stems from human nature and the decisions that it causes humans to make. For instance someone today in the discussion mentioned why Brown went with the supposed devil in the first place. This shows that humans get themselves into trouble because they are curious. Also the song, while having nothing to do with Hawthorne, further showed how the devil merely manipulates humans according to their nature as opposed to making them do things. He also shows humanity's love for knowledge. Like Genesis 3:4-5 the story follows that the point of joining this society was to gain the knowledge of sin and to use it for personal gain. Striving for self is also a large part of human nature.

So I would say that, given this particular story, Nathaniel Hawthorne would define evil as human nature.

kenna_d said...

I feel like Hawthorne is defining evil in a tangible sense, as much as in a manipulative mental sense. He presents us with a man, who Goodman Brown is not necessarily afraid of, but is not comfortable around either. I think that evil is the same way, things may look enticing, but in the end, the consequences take away from its draw.

It showed, as Lane said, that humans are easily manipulated, and it is human nature to go against what we know to be true and right because of our curiosity.

Evil, I think is displayed in poor selfcontrol and the curiosity in things less desirable.

kfasold said...

Hawthorne's defintion of "evil" I think is more of us humans and what dwells in us. The more manipulative personality that can come out and the power to question their own morals. Goodman Brown was manipulative when arguing with the man whohad trait of the devil. His words made Goodman Brown question his surroundings in his real life and the people in his life, as well as faith in a symbolic sense. I agree that this is one definition of evil and one example of it. But, I also feel that there are other definitions and perspectives on evil.

Liz said...

I think that Hawthorne would define evil a a person or thought that can cloud your own thoughts or perceptions. In the beginning of "Young Goodman Brown", he does not stick with his gut feeling and stay away from the woods. This is because the "evil" is clouding his original thoughts about the woods.

I would agree with this definition because when people pressure you into things you aren't thinking strait which is why you go against your original beliefs.

hannahs said...

I think Nathaniel Hawthorn would define evil as a presence that engulfs those who succumb to its power. Also, I think he sees it evil in many ways, rather than just one figure, such as the devil. I agree with him, because I believe evil exists in several elements of our life. I don' t think that any one thing can be defined as "evil." Examples of these elements of evil are humans, who carry out actions that result in evil consequences for either themselves or those around them

EmilyH said...

In this story, Hawthorne depicts a puritan community, in which almost everything is either controlled or frowned upon, so i see him as describing evil as the secret 'unholy' desires of our hearts, which are so easy to give into. Goodman Brown gave into his secret desire to go to the forest, and he paid for it by going pretty much insane. I kind of agree with that definition, but not entirely. I don't think that evil is something that can be completely tied down and defined, as it varies for every person and culture.

Chelsea said...

I think that the author, Nathaniel Hawthorne defines 'evil' as deciet in the short story "Young Goodman Brown". Through the experiences of Brown, he sees and is surrounded by evil. Coming from the Puritan community, Brown sees the "good" sides of people and all their saintly good deeds. When he discovers evil it is in the form of deceit. In the gathering he sees everyone who he sits with in church now performing devil worship. They put on two different faces for him and the full reality of sin in the world comes to him when he realizes he wrongly judged their characters. Also the deciet presents itself from the very begining with the traveler and bringing Brown to the gathering. Deciet was at the forfront of the stroy and throughout it. I agree with his definition, that deciet is one major form that evil shows itself in.